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A "Word" with Charlie David
Expanded Edition of 6-4-08 Windy City Times Interview
by Richard Knight, Jr.
Expanded Edition of 6-4-08 Windy City Times Interview
by Richard Knight, Jr.
A recent head shot, the Four Letter Word poster, a scene from the film with co-star Jesse Archer, DVD cover for the latest
incarnation of Dante's Cove
incarnation of Dante's Cove
Out actor Charlie David, known best to GLBT audiences for his role as Toby, the hunky male ingénue on three seasons of Here! TV’s
gay vampire series, Dante’s Cove, is not one to sit back and let career opportunities come to him. When he was putting together the
financing package for his forthcoming gay drama Mulligans (a gay update on The Graduate which he wrote and stars in), the actor,
while studying the prospectus for another gay movie in the making, A Four Letter Word was so taken with one of the roles that
he immediately had his agent suggest him for the part. Out writer-director Casper Andreas cast David in the movie, which was shot
in New York.
The film, a sequel to Andreas’ Slutty Summer, follows the further sexy, funny and sophomoric exploits of barfly and man hungry Luke
(Jesse Archer, who co-wrote the script) who is momentarily taken aback when handsome Stephen (played by David) spurns his come
on and refers to him as a “gay cliché.” Luke works in a sex toy shop with gay activist Zeke (Cory Grant in the Eve Arden best friend
role) who also thinks of Luke as silly and vacuous. But Luke blithely continues his wanton ways even after he and Stephen hook up
and tentatively start dating – that is until – gasp! – Luke falls in love for the first time. But Stephen, as the film reveals, is leading a
rather complicated life. Will Luke and Stephen be able to find true love? That’s the question audiences amswered for themselves
when A Four Letter Word played exclusively at Chicago's Music Box Theatre recently. A DVD of the film is promised soon.
David, smart and funny, discussed the film, his role on Dante’s Cove (Season Three is just out on DVD) and his forthcoming movie
Mulligans with Windy City Times. Excerpts:
WINDY CITY TIMES (WCT): You’re on quite a role, young man (laughs).
CHARLIE DAVID (CD): Yes, it’s been fun so far.
WCT: I love how the role in A Four Letter Word came to you – that you were studying Casper Andreas’ financing prospectus to figure
out how to do your own movie and then you saw a part in the script that you liked and went after it.
CD (Laughs): That’s me. Ever the go-getter, that’s for sure.
WCT: So what was it about the part of Stephen that attracted you?
CD: It was just that it was the opposite of what I do on Dante’s Cove because on that show I play the moral compass of the show, to
a degree (laughs).
WCT: (laughs hard) I’m sorry to laugh – it’s so funny to think of anyone on Dante’s Cove as the “moral compass.”
CD: (also laughing) If there is one my character Toby is it. Anyway, the part of Stephen was an opportunity to show a little bit of a
different side and I also thought that it was interesting to play someone who is a pathological liar to the point where he even
believes his own lies. That was the main thing – as well as shooting in New York. I’d never done that before and that was definitely
enticing to be able to get to do that.
WCT: Also, people don’t really acknowledge this a lot in our community but lying in the gay community – certainly during that “meet-
n-greet” period in the bar, the coffee shop or online or whatever – is commonplace. A lot of lying does go on, let’s face it.
CD: I think we all know these types of people that started with the white lies and pretty soon they’re fantastic storytellers and that
just continues to escalate and I thought that it would be interesting to try and be somebody like that. It gets to the point that
they're so disillusioned in their own lives that they believe they’re still in the right (laughs), you know?
WCT: Right. I love how your character says, “I have a trust fund” and I’m thinking, “How many times have I heard that one?”
CD: (laughs) Right!
WCT: Now, how great was it to work with a lot of predominately gay people on a movie?
CD: It was really refreshing, really refreshing because Number One, we’re making a fun and campy, fizzy, gay film but just to have
that freedom is great. I’ve worked on other shows where there are potentially closeted people and again, you never get to the
essence of the person or the truth of a person because you can always talk about certain things or ask certain questions. How’s the
weather? How’s the dog? Great! I like your hair. Fantastic (laughs). You know? As opposed to being able to talk about family and
relationships and that good stuff.
WCT: There’s also the bonus of performing your love scenes or sex scenes with someone of the same sexual persuasion. There’s
an innate intimacy that happens that’s missing between straight actors – even in a film like Brokeback Mountain, I think. It must have
been refreshing not to have to worry about going a little too far, “Oh no, what if I get a little too turned on?!”
CD: For sure that’s an aspect of it. I was at a Writer’s Guild conference the other night and this very thing came up. Why aren’t
more gay men cast as gay men? There are some wonderful straight actors who do a bang up job of it but casting directors or
producers sometimes still get a little skittish about it and I’m not sure what it is. I think part of it is something you’ve touched on
already – us embracing who we are and being okay with it and not having residual shame or self-hate or whatever. I’ve been
fortunate to kiss a few good looking men in my day (laughs). You know when I first got Dante’s Cove I was really excited, I thought
I'd be acting with all these other out actors and the first season arrives and I was the only one. I was shocked. I looked around and
thought, “I’m the only…gay person here?! Wow.” But now it’s grown, this last season we had seven out actors or actresses and that
was pretty cool. Not that it’s only about that because I think in the big scheme of things that’s what we’re working towards. That’s
why I am out because I feel that they’re shouldn’t be any shame in this, there shouldn’t be any hiding. It’s just another profession,
just like any other. I’m one drop in the bucket by coming out but hopefully one day we’ll be in that other place where it truly doesn’t
matter and that your orientation…
WCT: Is akin to left-handedness (laughs).
CD: Yes, yes. It shouldn’t be such a defining factor in casting.
WCT: Actually, I think you’re being out is very canny. You’re the first openly gay star in this new gay market. Certainly on a
personal level but on a business level, too, you’re a trailblazer because when you look at our marketing clout, it makes sense to be
on the front lines. As audiences for gay themed material grows, people will say, “Charlie David was the first one.” Are you aware of
that at all?
CD: In some recesses of my mind I guess I process that but I try not to dwell on it because I think there’s a danger of trying to
play into being something; being the idea of whatever that “gaylebrity” is as opposed to just remaining focused on the work and
moving forward in that way. I always get asked, “How hard has it been in Hollywood blab la bla, coming out” and I get tired of the
question because the fact is that I’ve lost roles by coming out – most definitely – but I’ve also gained a lot of roles by coming out.
As you mentioned the most important aspect for me was that personally it was, “What is required for my happiness? For the
contentedness of my soul?” And then the work will come or it won’t but I can’t be too overly stressed about that. I think, like you
said, the more that we are out and telling our stories and our representing ourselves in better and better ways that audience will
continue to grow. I’m on the festival circuit now with my movie Mulligans and I’m seeing what I would consider a higher quality gay or
gay and lesbian product and I think that’s the thing that we need to focus on as well. It’s no longer just okay to say, “Oh, well
here's a gay movie or TV show.” We’ve done that, now let’s continue to raise the bar and make them with more engaging stories,
higher concept, more professionally shot. All those things.
WCT: I’m very happy to hear you say that because I’m so enamored with many foreign gay movies.
CD: Me too! Me too!
WCT: I think it’s because they’re usually movies that have dealt with the sexual issue already. It’s not always central and the films
go much deeper. I’m intrigued to see Mulligans, which you wrote and star in, because it looks like it gets more into that deeper
territory.
CD: I’m really hoping so. We aimed to tell a story, not to pander to our gay audience. We felt like, “You know what? If we tell a
really good story, the gay audiences are going to see themselves reflected in the work” which was kind of a risky approach. Because
you know the line from the people putting up the money is kinda, “You want to see the nickel you gotta show the pickle” (laughs)
and for me I feel that gay cinema does not have to equate to porn and unfortunately that’s sometimes what we feel. Why can’t we
also tell a really engaging story and with Mulligans I hope that we’ve done that. It is a coming out story to a degree but it’s for a
different generation that maybe we haven’t seen reflected as much.
WCT: Twenty years ago Harvey Fierstein told me during the press tour for Torch Song Trilogy that he still had thousands of gay
stories he wanted to tell. Is that how you feel?
CD: When I get asked how hard has it been to get into the mainstream cinema or TV world I guess I have a very similar viewpoint
as he does in that I do feel that if I told stories that represented our community for the rest of my life and that they were interesting
and authentic and real I would be very happy. I feel similarly that for so long the representations that we’ve had have not always
been positive ones because in our culture that’s how we learn. So much of it is from film and television. That’s how we learn how to
behave and how to dress and that’s where we get our heroes from. So I think it is time to tell our stories and have some heroes for
LGBT youth for sure and for everybody. I think beyond that the next frontier – which I think the European filmmakers are already
doing as you said because they’ve dealt with the coming out issues and sexual repression issues – is that they’re now able to truly
show gay and lesbian characters as one step deeper, one step richer and they can also have unattractive, negative qualities. We’re
a little bit shy to go into that area because historically the ax murderer is also gay.
WCT: Okay, but before all that, let’s get back to my favorite guilty gay pleasure – Dante’s Cove (laughs). What’s happening with
season four?
CD: Well, they’ve got the scripts ready to go and we’re waiting to see what’s happening with the potential actor’s strike. I don’t
know if we’re going to have another strike, I don’t think anybody wants another strike but at the same time June is right around the
corner, so…That’s why I’m going on a little hiatus this summer.
WCT: So once that’s all resolved we’ll get some more naked Toby?
CD: Yeah! (laughs)
WCT: Did I read that you have three straight roommates and that one of them plays your gay lover on Dante’s Cove?
CD: That is true, that’s my current living arrangement here in LA. We’re just about to go hike and run in the Canyon right now.
WCT: That’s another movie right there Charlie.
CD: I know!
WCT: Let’s circuit back to A Four Letter Word – how important is it for audiences to support this movie, especially queer ones, the
opening weekend?
CD: It’s extremely important. The first weekend basically dictates how many other theatres, how many other screens it will roll out
in across the country. Thankfully, with A Four Letter Word in New York we had a really good, very strong opening weekend and we
played for three weeks there. We beat out some mainstream films. Going out and supporting ourselves shows that there is a
strong interest, a commitment to our movies, and proves that we want to hear and see our own stories and that message goes out
there. People look at those numbers and they notice. For our industry to continue to grow we have to support it. Think of it as not
only a good date night but also supporting a good overall cause of increasing awareness and representation. With A Four Letter Word
you don’t have to think too hard – you can be concentrating on the movie and on your date (laughs).
gay vampire series, Dante’s Cove, is not one to sit back and let career opportunities come to him. When he was putting together the
financing package for his forthcoming gay drama Mulligans (a gay update on The Graduate which he wrote and stars in), the actor,
while studying the prospectus for another gay movie in the making, A Four Letter Word was so taken with one of the roles that
he immediately had his agent suggest him for the part. Out writer-director Casper Andreas cast David in the movie, which was shot
in New York.
The film, a sequel to Andreas’ Slutty Summer, follows the further sexy, funny and sophomoric exploits of barfly and man hungry Luke
(Jesse Archer, who co-wrote the script) who is momentarily taken aback when handsome Stephen (played by David) spurns his come
on and refers to him as a “gay cliché.” Luke works in a sex toy shop with gay activist Zeke (Cory Grant in the Eve Arden best friend
role) who also thinks of Luke as silly and vacuous. But Luke blithely continues his wanton ways even after he and Stephen hook up
and tentatively start dating – that is until – gasp! – Luke falls in love for the first time. But Stephen, as the film reveals, is leading a
rather complicated life. Will Luke and Stephen be able to find true love? That’s the question audiences amswered for themselves
when A Four Letter Word played exclusively at Chicago's Music Box Theatre recently. A DVD of the film is promised soon.
David, smart and funny, discussed the film, his role on Dante’s Cove (Season Three is just out on DVD) and his forthcoming movie
Mulligans with Windy City Times. Excerpts:
WINDY CITY TIMES (WCT): You’re on quite a role, young man (laughs).
CHARLIE DAVID (CD): Yes, it’s been fun so far.
WCT: I love how the role in A Four Letter Word came to you – that you were studying Casper Andreas’ financing prospectus to figure
out how to do your own movie and then you saw a part in the script that you liked and went after it.
CD (Laughs): That’s me. Ever the go-getter, that’s for sure.
WCT: So what was it about the part of Stephen that attracted you?
CD: It was just that it was the opposite of what I do on Dante’s Cove because on that show I play the moral compass of the show, to
a degree (laughs).
WCT: (laughs hard) I’m sorry to laugh – it’s so funny to think of anyone on Dante’s Cove as the “moral compass.”
CD: (also laughing) If there is one my character Toby is it. Anyway, the part of Stephen was an opportunity to show a little bit of a
different side and I also thought that it was interesting to play someone who is a pathological liar to the point where he even
believes his own lies. That was the main thing – as well as shooting in New York. I’d never done that before and that was definitely
enticing to be able to get to do that.
WCT: Also, people don’t really acknowledge this a lot in our community but lying in the gay community – certainly during that “meet-
n-greet” period in the bar, the coffee shop or online or whatever – is commonplace. A lot of lying does go on, let’s face it.
CD: I think we all know these types of people that started with the white lies and pretty soon they’re fantastic storytellers and that
just continues to escalate and I thought that it would be interesting to try and be somebody like that. It gets to the point that
they're so disillusioned in their own lives that they believe they’re still in the right (laughs), you know?
WCT: Right. I love how your character says, “I have a trust fund” and I’m thinking, “How many times have I heard that one?”
CD: (laughs) Right!
WCT: Now, how great was it to work with a lot of predominately gay people on a movie?
CD: It was really refreshing, really refreshing because Number One, we’re making a fun and campy, fizzy, gay film but just to have
that freedom is great. I’ve worked on other shows where there are potentially closeted people and again, you never get to the
essence of the person or the truth of a person because you can always talk about certain things or ask certain questions. How’s the
weather? How’s the dog? Great! I like your hair. Fantastic (laughs). You know? As opposed to being able to talk about family and
relationships and that good stuff.
WCT: There’s also the bonus of performing your love scenes or sex scenes with someone of the same sexual persuasion. There’s
an innate intimacy that happens that’s missing between straight actors – even in a film like Brokeback Mountain, I think. It must have
been refreshing not to have to worry about going a little too far, “Oh no, what if I get a little too turned on?!”
CD: For sure that’s an aspect of it. I was at a Writer’s Guild conference the other night and this very thing came up. Why aren’t
more gay men cast as gay men? There are some wonderful straight actors who do a bang up job of it but casting directors or
producers sometimes still get a little skittish about it and I’m not sure what it is. I think part of it is something you’ve touched on
already – us embracing who we are and being okay with it and not having residual shame or self-hate or whatever. I’ve been
fortunate to kiss a few good looking men in my day (laughs). You know when I first got Dante’s Cove I was really excited, I thought
I'd be acting with all these other out actors and the first season arrives and I was the only one. I was shocked. I looked around and
thought, “I’m the only…gay person here?! Wow.” But now it’s grown, this last season we had seven out actors or actresses and that
was pretty cool. Not that it’s only about that because I think in the big scheme of things that’s what we’re working towards. That’s
why I am out because I feel that they’re shouldn’t be any shame in this, there shouldn’t be any hiding. It’s just another profession,
just like any other. I’m one drop in the bucket by coming out but hopefully one day we’ll be in that other place where it truly doesn’t
matter and that your orientation…
WCT: Is akin to left-handedness (laughs).
CD: Yes, yes. It shouldn’t be such a defining factor in casting.
WCT: Actually, I think you’re being out is very canny. You’re the first openly gay star in this new gay market. Certainly on a
personal level but on a business level, too, you’re a trailblazer because when you look at our marketing clout, it makes sense to be
on the front lines. As audiences for gay themed material grows, people will say, “Charlie David was the first one.” Are you aware of
that at all?
CD: In some recesses of my mind I guess I process that but I try not to dwell on it because I think there’s a danger of trying to
play into being something; being the idea of whatever that “gaylebrity” is as opposed to just remaining focused on the work and
moving forward in that way. I always get asked, “How hard has it been in Hollywood blab la bla, coming out” and I get tired of the
question because the fact is that I’ve lost roles by coming out – most definitely – but I’ve also gained a lot of roles by coming out.
As you mentioned the most important aspect for me was that personally it was, “What is required for my happiness? For the
contentedness of my soul?” And then the work will come or it won’t but I can’t be too overly stressed about that. I think, like you
said, the more that we are out and telling our stories and our representing ourselves in better and better ways that audience will
continue to grow. I’m on the festival circuit now with my movie Mulligans and I’m seeing what I would consider a higher quality gay or
gay and lesbian product and I think that’s the thing that we need to focus on as well. It’s no longer just okay to say, “Oh, well
here's a gay movie or TV show.” We’ve done that, now let’s continue to raise the bar and make them with more engaging stories,
higher concept, more professionally shot. All those things.
WCT: I’m very happy to hear you say that because I’m so enamored with many foreign gay movies.
CD: Me too! Me too!
WCT: I think it’s because they’re usually movies that have dealt with the sexual issue already. It’s not always central and the films
go much deeper. I’m intrigued to see Mulligans, which you wrote and star in, because it looks like it gets more into that deeper
territory.
CD: I’m really hoping so. We aimed to tell a story, not to pander to our gay audience. We felt like, “You know what? If we tell a
really good story, the gay audiences are going to see themselves reflected in the work” which was kind of a risky approach. Because
you know the line from the people putting up the money is kinda, “You want to see the nickel you gotta show the pickle” (laughs)
and for me I feel that gay cinema does not have to equate to porn and unfortunately that’s sometimes what we feel. Why can’t we
also tell a really engaging story and with Mulligans I hope that we’ve done that. It is a coming out story to a degree but it’s for a
different generation that maybe we haven’t seen reflected as much.
WCT: Twenty years ago Harvey Fierstein told me during the press tour for Torch Song Trilogy that he still had thousands of gay
stories he wanted to tell. Is that how you feel?
CD: When I get asked how hard has it been to get into the mainstream cinema or TV world I guess I have a very similar viewpoint
as he does in that I do feel that if I told stories that represented our community for the rest of my life and that they were interesting
and authentic and real I would be very happy. I feel similarly that for so long the representations that we’ve had have not always
been positive ones because in our culture that’s how we learn. So much of it is from film and television. That’s how we learn how to
behave and how to dress and that’s where we get our heroes from. So I think it is time to tell our stories and have some heroes for
LGBT youth for sure and for everybody. I think beyond that the next frontier – which I think the European filmmakers are already
doing as you said because they’ve dealt with the coming out issues and sexual repression issues – is that they’re now able to truly
show gay and lesbian characters as one step deeper, one step richer and they can also have unattractive, negative qualities. We’re
a little bit shy to go into that area because historically the ax murderer is also gay.
WCT: Okay, but before all that, let’s get back to my favorite guilty gay pleasure – Dante’s Cove (laughs). What’s happening with
season four?
CD: Well, they’ve got the scripts ready to go and we’re waiting to see what’s happening with the potential actor’s strike. I don’t
know if we’re going to have another strike, I don’t think anybody wants another strike but at the same time June is right around the
corner, so…That’s why I’m going on a little hiatus this summer.
WCT: So once that’s all resolved we’ll get some more naked Toby?
CD: Yeah! (laughs)
WCT: Did I read that you have three straight roommates and that one of them plays your gay lover on Dante’s Cove?
CD: That is true, that’s my current living arrangement here in LA. We’re just about to go hike and run in the Canyon right now.
WCT: That’s another movie right there Charlie.
CD: I know!
WCT: Let’s circuit back to A Four Letter Word – how important is it for audiences to support this movie, especially queer ones, the
opening weekend?
CD: It’s extremely important. The first weekend basically dictates how many other theatres, how many other screens it will roll out
in across the country. Thankfully, with A Four Letter Word in New York we had a really good, very strong opening weekend and we
played for three weeks there. We beat out some mainstream films. Going out and supporting ourselves shows that there is a
strong interest, a commitment to our movies, and proves that we want to hear and see our own stories and that message goes out
there. People look at those numbers and they notice. For our industry to continue to grow we have to support it. Think of it as not
only a good date night but also supporting a good overall cause of increasing awareness and representation. With A Four Letter Word
you don’t have to think too hard – you can be concentrating on the movie and on your date (laughs).
